1.30 Eddard VII Jun 10, 2018 23:55:01 GMT
Post by stdaga on Jun 10, 2018 23:55:01 GMT
It was a team effort. I didn't connect that line about the maid of winter with the rest of those lyric's until you reminded me.
Oh, as the lines are all in Clash and Storm, the title escaped me. Thanks!
I also like the idea you had for searching for the Bael Tale disguised in a southron song!
LOL! Probably a better one than what my mind made up. While I'm not lyrical at all, in this case it was probably due to my mind going Spring - Dawn - Spring Maid - Ashara - The FALSE Spring - WTF, etc. So the word "sunrise" was pushed out of my head, haha! Lately several aspects that has been much thought about has been flipped for me, with following disorientation.
I very geekily made a grid that included all the modifier's, and then looked at what was missing and what was needed. Sunrise seems to balance out sunset, but that doesn't mean that is what GRRM will finally give us. And really, the dawn and sunrise do occur a the start of each day, so that connection is spot on. My missing word list includes warm, bright, green, pink, sweet, fresh, new, soft, pure, etc.
One thing that is interesting is that if sunrise fits, then we have sunrise, sunset, and sunlight indicating spring, autumn and summer, while moonlight is connected to winter. The sun's light doesn't seem to apply to the winter season at all, at least in the song's imagery. But it certainly seems to set winter and moonlight as different from the other season and their sun aspect.
I had some time on my hands at work, which allowed my mind to wander ...
This seems to be the hard part to fill in the blanks about, and we might need more story for it. Red and white are color's, and if "fair" was a color, then it would makes sense that the missing word is a color too. But fair isn't a color at all, so I really don't know what I am thinking. I was looking at idea's like red and white AND black, but black doesn't fit spring, and how does fair fit that concept of color, anywya? It doesn't. But the opposite of fair could be considered dark (I was thinking back to the descriptions that Bran gave us of Jon as dark and Robb as fair in the first chapter) but that doesn't really work with spring either. And red and white are not really opposite's, so I don't know if black fit's. So ... red and white and ? Green might fit with spring, but it doesn't make me think of sunrises. Pink could, as you mention, or orange. The only reason opposites are in my head is because sunrise and sunset are opposites, but that might not be how to solve the lyric puzzle, either.
Are you thinking red + white = pink here? Not quite following you here... I tend to connect "fair" with very light yellow in this case, but that is a personal one.
Perhaps, I should just be patient and wait until GRRM gives it to us!!! But I am not very patient. And I like puzzles.
No, dark doesn't really tie in nicely with sunrise... Have no suggestions at the moment. I have to say my mind goes to green with Spring, but as you say "fair" isn't a color.
I agree that green might fit very nicely with spring.
Summer do make me think of Cersei, mostly due to Kevan's thoughts on her vs Lyanna in his epilogue. But looking closer at that one, that is actually wrong
So he seems to be thinking of Cersei as the rising sun = spring, but that doesn't fit in my head at least. But that place is occupied with Ashara and House Dayne, so...
She will never wash the stain away, no matter how hard she scrubs. Ser Kevan remembered the girl she once had been, so full of life and mischief. And when she'd flowered, ahhhh … had there ever been a maid so sweet to look upon? If Aerys had agreed to marry her to Rhaegar, how many deaths might have been avoided? Cersei could have given the prince the sons he wanted, lions with purple eyes and silver manes … and with such a wife, Rhaegar might never have looked twice at Lyanna Stark. The northern girl had a wild beauty, as he recalled, though however bright a torch might burn it could never match the rising sun.
Another thought that came to me is "summer" could tie to Elia, as the sun's daughter. Even if her hair was (probably) black.
LOL! Seems I'm really only thinking of this in lines with the False Spring here. It probably has ties to the current story as well, but right now I'm unable to think on that.
If I follow what you are saying, you are thinking of sunrise with spring, sunlight with summer, and sunset with autumn? Which does merge season and sun cycle's in a rather poetic way. But winter ... and it's association to the moon ... I am thinking on that.
I do think of Cersei as fitting nicely with summer. She is Robert's queen, and so while he has Summer imagery all over him, he fit's the King of Summer concept, and we have Cersei as his queen, so perhaps the Queen of Summer? Even though we get a lot of cold imagery around her too. That is why in my long ago head canon, I linked her to possibly being Eddard's lover at one time, with her cunt as cold as ice imagery that Robert complains about. I know that is very tinfoily, and don't blame anyone for not seeing it like I do.
And she is definitely connected to this aspect of the song's lyrics, through Lancel, who is a surrogate for Jaime in her bed, and in Tyrion thinking that Cersei is beautiful when she smiles and understands why Jaime must love her.
However, the Lannister's are connected to the west, which is the direction the sun's set's in, so Kevan's imagery of Cersei as the "rising sun" which should happen in the east. Perhaps it just is telling us that Cersei is like the sun, and in her youth she was rising, and perhaps if she makes it back to the westerlands, it will be in the setting sun portion of her life. During her marriage to Robert and time as his queen, she was the sun at it's zenith? I am just messing with concepts and not sure if any of them fit.
So sunrise, or the rising sun, doesn't necessarily discount summer. The rising sun happens no matter what season it is, winter, spring, summer or fall. Although I agree that Ashara would have some rising sun imagery related to Dawn, and she is connected to the Dawn sword through her brother, her family and the fact that we are told that Ned returned Dawn to her at Starfall.
However, Starfall is connected to the Dayne's as it is their seat and home, and a falling star (and a falling star make me think of a setting sun) doesn't really bring to mind the dawn concept either, so not every connection makes perfect sense. Again, it's probable that we think about this more than GRRM!
Waiting for more information is probably smart. I just have a feeling that GRRM might give us something unexpected when we finally get it, which would be fine, as long as we got "something" from him.
Thanks! I have some ideas of which it might be, but as said it's hard to say without more lyrics. Perhaps we're not given them for just that reason... Would give too much away?
Anyway, I haven't looked any further as of yet.
The story of my life!
Yes, it does make sense that she would want such children dead and buried (she is Tywin's daughter, after all, if not in blood than certainly in behavior) and does fit what story we are given in Clash. However, I just think how often things seem to fit (like the Lannister's killing Jon Arryn, until it turns out not to be what happened at all) until it doesn't even come close to squeezing together.
They might not have, but in any case it fits with what progresses with the story after Robert's death. And she has legitimate reason for not wanting his bastards shown besides "their trueborn" children. Not something I've put much thought into with the different bastards of Robert outside what we're given in the books.
However, I think that with Littlefinger's stories, or tales, that he is smart to have most things he says wrapped up in some kind of truth, so perhaps everything about Robert's twins at Casterly Rock and Cersei's having them killed is the utter truth.