Post by SlyWren on Jul 24, 2015 16:54:20 GMT
RE: Arthur. I don't have that as clear in my head as Rhaegar. Not as much discussion, though was able to discuss it a bit on RLJ, which helped. Made this list during one of those debates to get it all clear in my head. Messier than the RLJ list, but it's what I could think of. Not really an argument. Mostly just a list. Attack, mock, comment at will.
List of ALJ “Evidence”—strengths and implications to be determined.
General Warning: If characters can misread symbols, dreams, visions, myths, prophecies, statements, stories,
histories, conversations, and all the rest—so can readers. Should proceed with caution.
Potential for contact: unconfirmed or even mentioned in text
--Both at Harrenhal tournament
--A=R’s KG. Likely to have been with R if/when R supposedly “fell on L.”
Confirmed Associations: implications to be determined
--Ned tells Bran A= best knight he ever saw
--Ned’s toj memories—confirms A away from fighting. Ned’s dream connects toj with Lya’s death—grouping to be determined
--In toj dream, Arthur seems sad—context to be determined.
--Ned returns Dawn to Starfall after toj. Sign of respect. Implications to be determined.
--A’s sister Ashara reported to have committed suicide. Barristan associates suicide with dead daughter.
Edric Dayne implies suicide due to grief over Ned. Actual state of child (or not) or context of reported suicide to be determined.
--Edric Dayne says he and Jon were milk brothers—Lord of Starfall stresses connection to Bastard of Winterfell? Both boys nursed by Starfall servant named Wylla. Edric says Wylla=Jon’s mother. Evidence: Aunt Allyria. Her source and evidence not given. Truth of statements to be determined. Significance of Wylla, Starfall, and milk brothers: to be determined.
Daynes and the Greatsword Dawn:
--Oldest and most unique in Westeros. Reportedly forged from fallen star. Looks like milkglass
--Milkglass: Applies to Dawn. Applies to description of the Others’ bones (seen when Puddles gets puddley). Even have Jon and Edric as “milk” brothers. Implications to be determined.
--Dawn only wielded by “worthy” Dayne—not strictly ancestral from father to son. Significance and backstory of tradition not given.
--Dawn wielded by “Sword of the Morning.” Source of title to be determined. Implied connection to Long Night. Actual connection of title and/or sword to Long Night to be determined.
--Daynes=oldest of First Men. Look different from other FM (ie: Starks and Northerners). Nothing in text says all FM from same ethnic group. Daynes have some Valyrian-type features. Implications to be determined.
Potential Parallels out of Text: Arthurian Legends
--Arthur parallels Lancelot: best knight Ned ever saw. Legendary fighter. Wields Dawn because worthy.
--Rhaegar: King Arthur parallels. Son of Dragon (like Pendragon). Tries to reform kingdom—hampered by family. Some evidence R was close to Arthur.
--Dawn and Excaliber: legendary sources. Unique. Tied to last battles. Only worthy can wield.
--Tower of Joy: Where Lancelot took Guinevere after fleeing. Result: war. toj in novels—who stayed there or not: unknown. Who actually named tower: unknown. Result of Lya’s disappearance: war. Arthur probably dies there—(method to be determined).
Other Associations: Implications and/or Potential Parallelism to be Determined
--Jaime’s dream of being under Casterly Rock. Dreams of A. with Hightower and Whent. Implies they fulfilled a duty together as KG while Jaime failed. Context to be determined. Level of Jaime’s knowledge about context to be determined.
--Jon and Ygritte—Jon thinks he is breaking vows to the NW as Ned did to Cat. Arguably works better if father broke vows to something like NW. IE: the KG. Also works if Ned or Rhaegar=father.
--John and Longclaw—Jon thinks it is not his sword. Thinks about ancestral swords in general. Dreams of swords. In a world of swords, not remotely unusual.
--The Soiled Knight—Oakheart: loyal/upright/confident knight. Laughed at Brristan’s dismissal. Protests when ordered to beat Sansa. Avoids hitting hard. Treats her kindly when escorting. Seduced by Arianne Martell—shocked by her insistence that knights can be seduced. Joins plot against crown. Makes a mess of everything. Dies in fight as result. Implications of parallel or existence of parallelism to be determined.